A Creative Minds Special - QUEERIES

hi I am Katie and this is queries with Alexa hi and Louie yo here at Bear Jam we are going to talk about what it means to be an ally what it means to learn more about the shared experience of the lgbtq plus community so yeah we're just gonna have a nice little conversation have some fun yay ready for this we're ready we're gonna do an lgbtq plus version of this or that okay now no you cannot like loiter in your thinking it's just the first thing okay can I just call it something no okay are you ready hit me Mighty hoopla or Wireless my hoopla Soho or dalston Soho Manchester or London Pride London London yeah handbag or bum bag because there are you guys like oh for you look the same okay queers folk or banana Cruise [ __ ] banana what Frankie or Grace Frankie Beyonce or Brittany Brittany Beyonce Brighton or Birmingham Brighton Brighton Drag Brunch or drag bingo um Kylie or Madonna are we ready for this one leather sequins or latex leather sequins Barbra Streisand or Celine Celine Celine Wicked or six done yeah yeah you're pretty we were like five out of eight there I would say all right I think we should start off with hopefully an easy one What In your experience makes a good Ally specifically in 2023 because what an ally meant years ago I think that takes it's a very different connotation now at least in my experience I think the best allies that I know are once are um educating themselves and like actively like taking an interest yeah um and being like asking questions like you do for example asking questions and being on a podcast with us but yeah I think I think it's like being open to like not knowing the answer and like um being like willing to like [ __ ] up and say stupid [ __ ] and ask questions and like be open to not knowing the answer yeah I mean obviously this is not about me there is sometimes a lot of pressure to get it right and there's almost a lot of freedom when you like lean into the idea of I'm gonna have a conversation about something really hard and I'm a hundred percent going to mess up and say the wrong thing yeah and make a mistake and I just very much appreciate that you guys give that space to make the mistake because I can only get better if I'm gonna say the wrong thing and learn I think like as long as people are open to learning from their mistakes then it's all fine everyone's gonna [ __ ] up at some point like we do yeah um but it's just yeah not taking offense and making it about yourself yeah but um yeah just growing and being willing to change yeah your thoughts and ideologies that's a really good point about not taking offense because when you do take offense you make it about yourself yeah it's just like put your shoulders back take it and move on this is this is something I J I genuinely have a question about it's one thing to be accepting of everyone and not feel like you discriminate or like see color see differences things like that which is what I thought what made a good Ally because my Mo has always just been like whatever great yay but now I can see that there's more value and being very specific in how an ally behaves within a certain like marginalized community in your experience kind of like what's the merge of being like whatever do your thing live your life but also actually caring and do you know what you know what I mean and like and helping to like move the dial forward a bit Yeah I think there's like there's a lot of people who are very much like oh you know whatever happens between closed doors I don't really care do what you want to do but that's okay but we kind of moved on from that point as yeah like you kind of have to do something like uh like our community is coming under under attack constantly so it's like if you're going to be a good Outlet you kind of need to be able to know when to stand up yeah for people like us and like actually do something about it so whether that's like I don't know um protesting or like helping us get laws passed like or even something as simple as like if you see someone being like homophobic towards someone being like what the [ __ ] are you doing yeah you can't say stuff like that like so it's just like standing up for people I think if you see it call it out yeah because it's so easy for people to just not or just like you know let it pass and just be like oh maybe they didn't hear or yeah right I don't know but um if you see it yeah say something I think that there is something to that because it's all going to well to be like obviously I wouldn't tolerate that or everybody should just be a nice person but there are like more actionable things within the community that you can do okay to continue to make about me I have a few more Ally questions any Allied pet peeves of yours I mean I guess in general just tokenizing yeah I don't really mean by that like I mean I mean it seems very cliche these days but it used to happen a lot where it was kind of like gay best friend yeah type thing right right like if I were to say you know I grew up in the theater I have like loads of gay friends that would just be not what I you know yeah but I mean I wouldn't mind that yeah okay okay but um yeah also kind of like a sense of entitlement when occupying queer spaces okay yeah um I think that's a good one yeah like that's a topic that's widely discussed in the past few years yeah like what is appropriate but um yeah I think as long as you're respectful yes then it's okay but at the end of the day it's supposed to be like a safe space for queer people but yeah as I say as long as it's respectful do you mind if I asked for an example of that hemp parties interesting okay yeah because I got to brighten quite a lot yeah and that's like a huge thing in Brighton like much more than London um but it's like every other bar if you go on like a Friday or Saturday yeah um you will see like at least a few hen parties just out and about yeah and not to generalize right right right right not always the most respectful of the games in those spaces yeah God I feel like it would only make it more fun that's no problem all those drunk girls like what mortgage yeah I think I can go off of that and just like you know all the gay clubs in London is like you go into a gay club and you're expecting there to be gay people in there and they're all straight yeah and you're like why are you here like this is like obviously you're allowed to go but it's like sure this is like if you go to a gay club to meet people right and it's just all straight people and it just becomes very frustrating yeah so I had an experience like that in New York where I went with my friend who was a lesbian and we went there and it was kind of like she'd ask me like you know let's go wingman let's have something have a nice night out we went and it was all straight yeah every single person you're like oh it's like this is the most unproductive sports bar down the street that would be much better yeah yeah that's where all the lesbians are yeah I mean Sports um okay great how do I how how would an ally or even just any heterosexual or non-member of the community make themselves more approachable to the community I think it's just don't be a dick yeah it's just like I think if you're just a nice person then it's just like you're just more open to people and people will feel more comfortable around you and you know if you come off as a dick then I'm probably not going to come to you and be like hi I'm really gay nice to meet you yeah when that happens and we're all in the same space for example work how does that how does that translate into those types of environments like when we're all you know I don't want to even say coexisting it feels like it adds weight if I say that but I guess I guess that's what it is when we're all in the same space like because historically like all of our experiences have been more catered towards me you know I'm more I'm privileged like you know white woman of straight like what helps you have the same experience if you can that I'm having easily what would make me a greater I guess Ally for you guys than that I think it's like um being open to ask questions like obviously uh I think when you're a straight woman people will ask you about your husband and your gifts and stuff and it's like people wouldn't actually ask us questions like that so it's just like being open to asking different kinds of questions and like the fact that we live different kinds of lives yeah and we don't really love different kinds of lives but you know like um like but yeah like we have different experiences and it's like uh I guess being open to that yeah yeah I can come in and talk about my kids right and just like and I assume that everyone will be enthralled by me of course show me your slides you know what I mean I just assume everyone's interested in what I'm saying it would never occur to me that somebody wouldn't want to hear like how I live my life yeah and yeah I can really only imagine that experience of having to be like can I share this yeah public place I think that that comes down to like being in a safe space and like knowing that you can share stuff about your life and be like oh I went out last night and did this and it's like yeah can I say that in the workplace like is that appropriate and it's like yeah it should be like why why shouldn't it be appropriate to talk about my life like yeah especially in a creative industry yeah I we work in a creative relaxed environment so like why can't we talk about this stuff yeah have you had any experiences of like I know that we do work in a creative industry and historically that's like a more Progressive liberal space where people wouldn't really it's not like we're you know that's what Town Florida but we're not like you know you could initially inherently feel safe when you walk in there um have you guys have had have you ever had any experiences of where that's not been the case and you've not felt comfortable even though people from the outside would look in and see this company and be like oh yeah great you could be whoever you want in World very Progressive have you ever had an experience that wasn't the case yeah um I even really thought about it too much but there was a place where I used to work just for a short period um where I definitely like held back parts of myself it was difficult because the workplace atmosphere was very passively heterosexual or heter normative was it very laddy yes it was very Landy yeah everyone in there was male um and yeah and then it was kind of like when we parted ways it was very much it just wasn't a good fit but yeah as I say it wasn't until like thinking about it more recently yeah that it was like was that was was me there yeah yeah or like even like partly being myself was that part of the reason why um like having to filter yourself in situations filter things that you said things like absolutely yeah yeah as queer people what do you value the most within a work environment biscuits um no I think like um knowing that there's like policies in place that like protect us there's obviously like the law that protects us but that is often not put in place in a work place and uh it's quite hard to uphold um so I think it's just having like policies that are that go above what the law is to kind of like ensure that we're safe to begin with and it's kind of just like a baseline really so like a no discrimination policy yeah yeah and also like making sure everybody's aware that there is one yeah it exists what it entails and then consequences or actions yeah something yeah and it's like making sure everyone's educated on those policies and why they're put in place yeah because I think that uh sometimes people can be a bit like oh well you know everyone's fine it's like it doesn't matter yeah you don't need it but like some people do need to be educated right and might not be as open to other people about asking these kinds of questions yeah would inevitably say something that could be offensive because when I go into workplace or I guess the one time I have since I've had kids the first thing I look for is what is written down as as to the policy that will help support me be a working mother whether that's maternity whether that's what the flexible hours are all of that and I that's the first thing I look for when we're handed a you know a handbook or whatever yeah so it makes sense that what would protect the two of you and your rights and your experience and work would have to be written down as well I initially in my passive allyship would be like I don't feel like we need to talk about how you don't discriminate and work in that way um but can you talk a little bit more about why that's important to you to have that like physical tangible evidence of that yeah I think it's it's just a protection really and it's just like ensuring that um your kind of base level is is protected and I think it's a little bit about like advocating for yourself and it's like if that is there as like the Baseline then I feel like I don't have to like but like um I'm gay and I've been discriminated against but there's no like laws against it so help me but also you have no legal right to help me so you know it's difficult but at least if that's written down you don't have to like advocate for yourself so it's easier if you are discriminated against yeah so it just makes life easier for people who need it fair enough that's a good point Louie is there anything that's um kind of important to you when it comes to your work environment yeah kind of like um going on from having policies in place it allows you to live authentically to who you are which is incredibly important and especially for mental health um because you know if you're like spending your life hiding who you are which if you spend your life hiding like who you are at work which is where you spend a lot of your time yeah you get quite close with your work days but if you're not really living authentically then that's gonna [ __ ] you up yeah um and play a huge toll on your mental health yeah sometimes it feels like it's unspoken or like Unwritten or kind of as you say it's just like oh we didn't think that yeah it needed to be like an established thing but it makes it would make me feel a lot more comfortable um because then you don't have to you don't have to guess if people are going to be okay with you because you know that if you are too gay yeah um then you do have protections and yeah that's why it's very very important especially to me um yeah I can't imagine a filtered version of the two of you I would not like yeah I think I think that's a good point though about toning yourself down and like how like in past jobs I've definitely had to like tone myself down not necessarily in front of certain people but in front of other people and you kind of change uh like how you present and like what you say in front of them is it's not just about like what you say but it's about like how you act and like code switching exactly yeah code switching talk to me mood switching changing like um how you act and how you speak and in front of different kinds of people so it's like if you feel safe you'll speak like your natural self your authentic self if you if you're in front of someone who you know is going to be like homophobic or whatever you will completely tone your gay down and absolutely not say anything at all like I feel like I have like a certain kind of privilege because I can generally passes straight um sometimes um but like generally I can pass it straight so it's kind of easier for me but um I don't know if it's what it's like for you um I think if people generally see me they don't often assume that I'm gay unless I have a dick in my mouth how often do people see you like no but then but then people are like oh I had no idea you were gay until you opened your mouth um and a purse fell out um but yeah so like I mean just going on from that like if I'm talking to random people that I haven't met before I will absolutely like lower my voice an octave and like I don't know trying to yeah be a bit more masculine yeah um until I know that they're they're cool yeah um yeah but like it's just it's just thicker nature because it's just I don't know that's just what I've done forever and what I probably always will do yeah yeah um unless I'm in like a fully queer space yeah um like Mighty hoopla yeah it's a great because it's super duper queer yeah and that was a time when I didn't think twice at all about having to Butch myself up yeah at all yes it was lovely back to this idea of safety like something that you said Alexa remind if I were to ever tone how I was acting at work because I it a lot I mean this is generally speaking like obviously women can occupy very unsafe spaces you know at work and stuff like that I've been very lucky that most of the space that I have have been safe but sometimes I will tone myself down or change my behavior to get certain results or to um I don't know you know I've like done myself down things like that it would never occur to me to do that to feel safe yeah so can you because I think a lot of people assume in 2023 like you know we're past that we're past like you know the influx of like hate crimes and I know sometimes I speak from like Estates like you know experience but we're past all the stuff where you don't feel safe that's actually not true yeah and can you speak a bit more about what it feels like to feel unsafe in 2023 and be a part of this community it feels like we're going backwards yeah really um yeah like like anti-gay anti-trans hate crimes are definitely on the rise peddled a lot by meet the media um I mean this is under tangent but like like the media controls like everything and if they decide that the general public should hate something they will end up hating it um which is a massive thing that's happening at the moment with like trans rights and it's just it's just terrible because I mean I saw like I think it was a tweet I know that was it it's the the fish that can change its gender yeah like um it was like a BBC bite size thing yeah and it was like six years ago it was reported no one cared yeah and it wasn't a thing but now it's been reported again because it was on CBeebies and they just said it on like one of their kids shows um that that this is moral Panic well it's all just feeding into the constant moral of time yeah but it's more like as I say it's just kind of like it wasn't it's entirely manufactured and it's just getting worse yeah um yeah I think it's like the media is has gone in on trans people and it's like um it is going backwards because if we look to like the naughties like what's a Face-Off big brother who won who was trans like uh Nadia Nadia yeah she won in like 2002 or something and it's like she would never win now yeah someone who's trans would never win like a reality TV show that would be uproar about them being on it to begin with yeah so it's like how are we so backwards like 20 years later just we're going in the wrong direction it doesn't make sense I think there's another big thing that I see quite a lot on social media is that like the same arguments against trans people these days are the arguments that they made against gay people back in the 70s 80s yeah um think of the children yeah it's just gonna repeat yeah and which is why it's really important that like you have to stand up for trans people and yeah yeah call out anything if you see it and just I don't know just makes the world a bit safer yeah God that kills me because like I think you know obviously it's such a big deal and it was getting legalized and stuff like that and I like in my my perception of it is that we're we're going up you know what I mean it should be less of a just the idea of you guys like not feeling safe is just I mean come on yeah I find it frustrating being in London because like I moved out of the Welsh Countryside which was like a nice space but you know yeah it's not many gays there and it's like yeah all the gays and the Sheep yeah but like I came to London expecting it to be like this big open like welcoming accepting space yeah and some parts of it are but you know a lot of it isn't and like you know I live in Brixton and Brixton can be a little bit like people wouldn't be quite as open to me walking down the street with my girlfriend holding hands and it's like it is a place where we might get shouted out for that and it's like it's uncomfortable and it's like you know there's different parts of London where you might be able to be openly gay but like yeah it's difficult to feel safe yeah yeah which goes back to our earlier point of like you may think you are in like a very liberal Progressive area or industry but it's just it's not like a cop-out yeah to then take your like foot off the pedal almost yeah exactly how do you guys navigate or if you do if you don't if you don't want to share I understand like do you have those conversations with your family and close friends who aren't a part of the community of like your experience of that and yeah just whether to like educate them or ask them to change their behavior yeah I think like it's just something that's coming up more and more with like my family and my girlfriend's family and it's like it's stuff that we have to talk about and like they think people just assume that we're okay like people just assume that you know like we don't get hate yeah um but we do get hate like and it's it's hard I think it's hard for families to kind of see that and recognize that because I think that goes back to people like your parents will always be a little bit like uh when you come out no matter what because they're scared for you right like that's kind of what Society is going to say yeah do and it's kind of sad in a way that that's always a parent's kind of first reaction but like it's understandable I mean like that that fear like hearing you guys talk about the security and have said that that would Trump the celebration of like thank you for telling me who you are as an initial reaction I think eventually be like this is great but the initial would be like I just never want anybody to ever hurt you you know and I just yeah I just can't imagine having that be your experience yeah speaking of Pride what is the best like what are your favorite um ways to celebrate Pride rainbows Booth yeah lots of parties yeah yeah parties are fun and what's it feel like to be in those in those moments fun yeah I did um London Pride last year and I was like on a on one of the trucks on one of the floats really I was right at the front it was great fun and I did feel like a celebrity I was on BBC News it was amazing yeah I'm famous you could buy my images on Getty Images it's me in like a rainbow onesie it's great one of our clients watch out that's our next stop by me I'm 400 pounds like this doesn't this image does not apply to our video but great um it was really fun and like I uh it was first Pride obviously since covered so it was very fun to go to one of the years I kind of went on like a tour of all the prize that I could because they're all at different times in like a three month period yeah like you mean cities in the UK yeah okay um and that was really fun yeah again it's just feeling really good to be in like a big city space or even like a small City space yeah um but just feel completely safe because it's fried yeah yeah I think there is like a balance of it being part of the protest it will always be a protest yes but it's also a nice space for us to celebrate like who we are and be openly out yeah so it's always going to be a celebration see it as a relief yeah just because I don't know I think I'm hardwired to believe that I'll never feel truly safe like every day yeah but on those days I do feel like that and that's a really great stress release on my brain um yeah so that's why I got all the pride but um yeah I've been in I've been in the parade I've been in London Pride twice I've been in Brighton once it's on the main stage at Pride once what are you famous I used to be in a gay men's dancing company are you kidding me were you in your mosquitoes doing it there's videos [Music] Lily yes that's really fun okay and I do it anymore but I mean I still dance yeah all the time I love that little short shirts okay so Pride we love it any fun um stories or is that like a good opportunity to meet new people date have some spicy makeouts you know how many so that's fun just in there below the street yeah just yep okay no PG-13 experiences that but can I keep asking you yeah I guess in a larger sense like not just Pride the experience of dating and meeting people in that community um in your community sorry um again back to like my experiences obviously was set up for this you know you like meet a dude and you have pop out a couple kids and this is this is what it sounds so romantic I know it is it is really romantic um but that's kind of what Society has historically been set up for right any um any experiences or thoughts on having to kind of navigate away from the societal Norm but also live authentically while dating while meeting people and trying to feel safe um grinder yeah I was gonna say the internet okay and that's been that's gonna help yeah not grinder for me no but it's it's a mixed bag yeah like grinder and like General dating apps as well they don't always work very well okay but yeah no it's kind of like it's hard because like you know you can go to gay bars and stuff but then it is typically you'd probably imagine that was more hookup culture right just like grinder but um I met my boyfriend on a big gay holiday but it was really nice to actually just like kind of meet him organically in person and I think that's the first time that I've ever actually done that um on the trip with you or you met him no no I met him I met him there at a wonderful bar in the jumbo Center called Kiki okay which just played non-stop pop until like 5 a.m perfect um and it was great yeah uh yeah and then turns out that he lived in London too so I perceived that oh um and now he's my boyfriend um I'm quite happy with the fact that I did just meet him in person and there was a connection and it didn't have to go through like grinder right whatever apps um yeah back to that feeling of being safe do you feel like you you have to almost go into those specific communities to meet somebody as opposed to Just swanning Around London and just like yeah you'll never know yeah almost like you think you know because they're presenting very gaily oh no that's very difficult I can't imagine having to constantly Wonder like when I was single or just go into a place and be like what's up you know or um and you having to constantly look for those signs because Society isn't set up to date within the lgbtq plus community um yeah yeah it's really difficult like I think I I would never naturally meet anyone in a bar unless it was a man because like it's just so much easier to meet like a guy in real life yeah but um if I was looking to be a woman it's much more difficult because you can't just be like hey because like like how do I know if you're gay or straight like yes it's so difficult to know it's not like you're wearing a big rainbow like and the whole point is to not have to go into a place in Proclaim well I I don't know like what can you speak about that about having to this idea of feeling like you have to come out in order to live your life I guess that's still what we have to do yeah but you know I don't go into a room and say guys I like men you know um yeah does that make sense can you speak more to like that experience well yeah there's like the the thing about constantly coming out right like we basically have to come out every single day yeah um like people think of coming out as being like a one-time big thing when you come out to your parents and your friends and like say oh my God rainbows is done like you're constantly having to be like um yeah I'm gay hi um I have a girlfriend yeah it's it's just something that you're constantly having to say and because everyone expects you to be straight like that is like a standard everyone's kind of like oh well everyone's heterosexual but not everyone is so it's like constantly on your mind yeah who you are yeah and having to to to State who you are yeah it's a lot does that ever feel exhausting that you need the witness here but I mean I feel tired for you yeah it's a lot of it's a lot of uh self-awareness I think um yeah which is why all the gays I know are in therapy and should everyone be yes but more so understandable reason yeah um are there any spaces that you walk into and you feel like you don't besides grinder and a gay bar okay I guess now we know spoons what's spoons I never got two spoons full of lads yeah and I did go to to um do you mean a Weatherspoon JD Weatherspoon JD where the where the beer's like two pounds yeah I'm surprised it's cheap cheapest chips a horribly sticky place but uh no but I mean JD Weatherspoon the man is a nasty ass person so oh really we don't support him oh God what he's a brexit here oh he fired everyone in covert yikes yeah is he still alive yeah but you would think you'd be dead that's how long it's not like an old chain he just bought up all the old pubs why are we talking about spoons but yeah what did you say you said yeah spoons and feel safe no he was being so cool Oh I thought you said I got there actually sorry sorry no but is there any place yeah fair enough are there any space you can walk into and just be like I don't have to press I don't have to preface myself usually when there's lots of rainbow Flags you're kind of like okay this is okay I feel accepted here do you feel like not not to go on a weird tie back tangent if workplaces were to be more upfront and clear about that from the gecko like when you're interviewing or um you know even on like their offices things like that is that does that do a lot of the heavy lifting I think it was yeah like as long as you know you don't if you were like you look gay let's tell you let's talk about it yeah yeah but you know what you can't you don't look gay no one can look gay yeah uh okay here's a question might be stereotypical but it was written down for me so it could be cool um who pays on a date the top um that is not true I mean who pays on your day it's 2023 I but to be fair when I when I was dating it was the guy well your straights yeah exactly I know some people who like I mean not to again like with the whole top and bottom thing yeah that like some people are like well I'm the bottom I don't have to pay um I think I mean generally in every date that I've ever been on we just split it yeah equality you know yeah yeah okay all right so what I've learned from that is the top yeah yeah good good good good good in all seriousness I know it's not the most fun to be sat down and grilled can I say marginalized is that yeah yeah Community it's not the most fun you have to be like very vulnerable and open and I very much appreciate it so thank you very much thank you for asking thank you thank you thank you thank you number one number number one I will get you a badge um thank you for watching swipe up and subscribe [Laughter] um no in all seriousness thank you very much for watching and listening I'm Katie I'm Alexa I'm Louie and this was query [Music]